. >> i'll use the joe biden word, malarky. >> eliot: i'm taking either one. there is still the centerpiece of the argument from the other side, the notion that austerity and you referred to european track record, the idea that austerity would settle the crisis. in europe what has it led to. >> a deeper and deeper recession, and worse recession in comparison to the rest of the economy. the huge issue is not the deficit number itself. it's the ratio of the debt to the economy over all. if the economy is growing because government is the spender of last resort and encouraging investment, education, job training, infrastructure, that growth actually enables the debt to shrink as proportion of the economy over all. europe and particularly spain and britain are the worst examples. they embarked on austerity economics, what happens? they actually shrink their economy. they go into recession, and their debt or deficit becomes a bigger problem as as the overall economy. >> eliot: i want to take snippets of this conversation and send it to every voter, and that would b